333 · Tim Furey - Why Defense, Not Offense, Makes You a Profitable Trader

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[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_03] And I just kept getting weaker and weaker when I was in the hospital. Finally, they had a specialist come look at me at 3 p.m. And it was, you know, I got there at 7 in the morning. 3 p.m. They had a specialist look at me and looks at my throat. He's like, we're going to have to take you to surgery. And I'm like, what are you talking about? No, no, no. Just give me antibiotics. I'll be fine. No, no. He's like, you don't understand. You're going to be dead in two hours. They put me under. And even when they were putting me under, I'm like, yeah, this is not working, you know.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_03] But then eventually, you know, I fell asleep and I woke up three and a half days later. For something that should have been a simple one hour surgery, I woke up three and a half days later in another hospital. I can't even think about it. But they start those levels started coming down. It was a good sign. But they told me there's a five percent chance of living once I went under.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01] One of the first things you had written down to, I heard you say, was, I mean, because you couldn't speak. You had the respirator in. You wrote down to the doctors. Am I going to live? You didn't even know if you were going to live. No, no, no.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_03] So I had the opportunity to be a floor tray market maker. I remember my first day when, you know, I go through the training program. I get licensed. Now I'm able to be on the floor. And the first day, you know, the manager of the clearing firm I worked for, he's like, all right, get in there. And I'm like, you know, it was really crowded. I didn't know where to stand. It's the most intimidating place, I think, in the entire world, right? There's just, you know, hundreds of angry people yelling and screaming.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_03] And it was my first day. So I walked in, got on the first step, and I walked out about 15 minutes later. And I'm like, oh, my God. So I went out, got a cup of coffee. I'm like, what did I do with my life? I just gave up, you know, the Merrill Lynch Futures Division. And I moved to Chicago, you know, pretty much my girlfriend dumped me because of this. And I gave up everything for this. And I'm like, oh, my God, I had no choice. And, you know, here's the thing, Kevin, and this goes out to the audience.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_03] What is the biggest thing I learned in the trading pit? And how did we make money, right? And to answer that is you had to learn how to...

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00] Markets, speculation, and risk. This is the Chat with Traders podcast.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_01] Hey, traders, we have a very exciting episode today of Chat with Traders. We have Tim Fury. He's the founder and CEO of TradeView Markets, a global brokerage serving traders around the world with more than 200 employees across multiple countries. Now, before building an international financial services business, Tim began his career as a commodity broker in the Merrill Lynch Futures Division, where he became the youngest person hired into the role in nearly four decades.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01] From there, he worked on the trading floors of the Chicago Board of Trade during one of the most transformative periods in market history. And then from there, he joined a proprietary hedge fund in Florida, trading firm capital. So he's got a ton of experience, guys. And, you know, eventually, Tim, he bet on himself, though. He used every single penny and founded TradeView Markets and grew it into a global brokerage while developing just a leadership mindset, a philosophy mindset centered around momentum,

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01] resilience, and continuous improvement. But Tim's story, guys, it's not just about the markets and business as well. In the middle of all of that, while building his company and raising a young family, his life changed overnight following a medical emergency that left him fighting for his life. That experience reshaped his perspective on leadership, success, and what truly matters. So today, guys, we're going to explore the lessons behind Tim's journey from the football field as well.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01] By the way, he played football at Southern Connecticut State University. We'll go from that to the trading floor, to entrepreneur, to CEO now. And the mindset that has carried him through both extraordinary success and profound adversity. So, Tim, welcome to Chat with Traders. Hey, Kevin. Yeah, great. Thank you for the intro. Absolutely.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03] Hey, I'll take it. Thank you.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01] You know, I've been researching you a lot over the last week, Tim. And one of the things that really captivated me in your story is just how you are constantly taking setbacks and you turn them into fuel. And is that the mindset you have to have when becoming either trader or CEO?

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_03] Dude, good question. I ask that every day. You know, how do other people have an easy life, even, you know, the successful ones? And, you know, I meet them every day. They seem to be doing... They seem to be on cruise control where every single day is like a battle for me. You know, and, you know, I'm 55. It kind of wears you down a little bit.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_03] But then you wake up the next morning and you're ready to do it again. It's kind of like being a boxer, right? It's like... And going against somebody competitive. Life is competitive. The world is competitive. Business is competitive, right? And you're going to have a boxer mentality to wake up every day.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01] Wow. You know, so have you always been like this? I know you were competitive back in your youth. You played college football. So take us back. Rewind time a little bit. Have you always been on the battlefield? Have you had this mindset?

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_03] You know, I can tell this story now. But back then, you know, I was maybe a little embarrassed, right? Because, yeah, I've always been competitive, right? You know, for example, football. I had the opportunity to play college football, right? That was my dream. And it was very competitive. Right? I thought I was, you know, a very good high school player. Right? And then once I went to college, it was like, oh, my God.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03] You know, I'm like, they may cut me. Right? So my first freshman year, I went in, you know, and I was a fullback. And there were a big recruiting class. And there were 12 fullbacks. I was in the 12th spot. You know, so during football camp, I'm like, I panicked. I'm like, oh, my God. If they cut me, you know, I'll lose my benefits in the school. And, you know, maybe I have to leave school. I don't know.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_03] So I went all out. And, you know, so we had, it's called football camps before college starts. It's two weeks before college starts. So you try to prepare for the season. So I was in the 12th spot. And the next day, I was in the 11th spot. Next day, 10th spot. You know, maybe somebody crawled out the window there in football camp because it's too tough for them. So now I'm in the 8th spot. Right? But, you know, I fought for my life.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_03] And by the end of camp, I was in the number two spot. So, you know, I was, I had to fight every way, learn the whole thing. And, you know, it's that mentality. You know, there's some great athletes. I was a good athlete. But in order to become great, I had to work 10 times harder than anyone else. I had no choice if that's what it took to succeed. I was willing to do it. And that's what I did.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_03] That's what I did during my college years. Eventually, you know, I had a couple opportunities. I got some playing time. And when I did have playing time, man, I, people knew my name. Right? I had some really good, I did some really good things on the field. My senior year, I finally got the starting spot. But, you know, we were rebuilding year that team, that year.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_03] And I still had to share my starting spot with the up and coming running back because I was going to graduate that year. So, yeah, you know, fighting, it's in my blood. And in business, it's the same thing. It doesn't stop.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_01] Doesn't stop. And hasn't. Now, back in your college days, playing football, there was a coach that had a profound impact on you. Can you tell us a little about that?

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, well, you know, Coach Kavanaugh, we call him Coach Cav. He was the head coach. And he gave me the opportunity to come to that team. Right? And, you know, I'm still friends with him today. And I thank him every day. Give him a hug every time I see him. I get emotional even thinking about it because I owe this guy a lot. And then there was a guy called Jeff Stoutland, who was the offensive coordinator. You know, I was a fullback on offense.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03] And this was the hardest working human being I've ever met in my life. The guy just had so much energy from, you know, he'd be the first in in the morning. Right? And he'd be the last one to leave. Right? He'd be doing X's and O's, you know, of the offensive line and plays till two in the morning. And, you know, it's just and, you know, he was hard on his players. But everybody loved this guy. People would die for this guy.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_03] Like, how can you be in that position where you demand, you know, so much from your players? You demand greatness from them. Right? You're going to have to be mean to them. You're going to have to put them on the bench. Right? But he had a way that people loved this guy and would die for him. So, you know, he was a big mentor for me because I watched in the background, you know, during my years there. And I'm like, you know, this guy's going somewhere. I just know it, you know?

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_03] And then, you know, after football, I graduated and I took that, you know, like his work ethic into the business world because I was an underdog. Right? I'm coming from a state university. You know, I'm smart enough. But, you know, I'm competing for jobs where, you know, the people from Ivy League schools, those are the jobs I'm competing for. Right? And to get in, you know, you had to use the side door, the back door, whatever.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_03] So, yeah, I, you know, I had a great mentor and I was lucky I got to watch him every single day.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01] Incredible. Now, Jeff Stoutland had a saying as well, didn't he? A quote that's stuck with you to this day. What is that?

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. He said it when we were playing. This is back in the 90s, right? Right? It's hungry dogs run faster. Right? He would say that every day. He would yell it out in the practice to get us to work hard. He would say it before a game. Even the playbook. Right? That I just saw like two months ago, an old playbook. One of my friends who was the quarterback, he saved it.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_03] And it said hungry dogs run faster. Now, that saying is famous now because, you know, Coach Stoutland, after, you know, after Southern Connecticut, my college, he went on to other colleges. Right? He, I think he went on to Michigan. He went to Miami. He was Alabama. Right? They won, what, three championships under him. Right? Maybe four.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_03] And he was the offensive line coach and run coordinator. And then he got brought to the Philadelphia Eagles. And he's made history there. He's the offensive line coach. And he's brought in some of the best recruits that's ever played a game. And he built them from, you know, from where they were to, to where they went.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03] And he was great on getting greatness out of people. That was his thing. So hungry dogs run faster. And he was all about getting greatness out of you. And he had the ability to do it.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_01] All right. With that quote, Tim, hungry dogs run faster. You know, it seems like that's just been a common thread that's run through your life now. And you've always been a fighter, too. I heard one time you gave an analogy where, look, when you're down 14 points in a football game, that's when Tim is most hungry. That's when you're fighting for your life. So how do you take that, though, and apply it in the seasons, I guess, of success? Like, for example, I just heard recently, too, on one of your interviews where you were

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01] about to surpass a billion dollars, your company. So congrats if you hit that mark. So let's say you're feasting at the table. For the traders listening, they're trading well. They're consistent. For the business owners listening, they're successful. How do you stay hungry and determined and motivated when you're in success?

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_03] That's a good question. It might be just because I'm wired that way. You know, I don't see it in other people, you know, especially kids. Right. And I think maybe I just wired that way, you know, because, you know, when, for example, when you start out a football game, you know, unfortunately, sometimes you could start out slow. Right. Feel it out. Right. Next thing you know, you're down 14 points and then something kicks in. All fear is gone.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_03] And you have to win. And that's when you, like, dig deeper and work harder because you have to. You have no choice because I decided I'm going to win. And the same thing in business. If you decide you're going to win, you know, some days are going to be easy. But if you get, you know, if you just work OK or somewhat hard, you know, you're going to come across things where you're going to have to work much harder.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_03] And it just happens every single day.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01] Maybe it's identifying like another target even because you've talked about finding a way to win, just always finding a way to win. So maybe it's just having the mindset like I haven't won. You know, there's there's the next target perhaps.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03] Right. But, you know, everything is always something right that gets thrown on you. And when something's thrown on me, I no matter what the odds are, I'm going to find a way to win. No matter what, you know, I'll go. I'll I'll wake up two in the morning and when I wake up, I can't go back to sleep because there may be something on my mind and I'm going through every scenario in my mind. Everything I learned from, you know, when I was three years old till now, 55.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_03] Uh, I'm reviewing and trying to find an angle on how to win.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01] Absolutely. Well, Merrill Lynch, they saw that winning attitude in you because you were their youngest hire in 40 years. So tell us about that.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, I was a commodity broker at a small firm. And this is back in the 90s, right? Where you had a smile and dial, right? You had a, you know, at the end of the day, I did 250 calls, hopefully talk to the right people. You get these lead lists, you know, that's when you can do these kind of things. Well, you know, I had the attitude where I want to work harder than anybody else in the office. So, you know, I would become rejection proof. I would talk to as many people as possible.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_03] And I built an amazing book of business where, uh, you know, I was number one broker in a small company. Uh, Merrill Lynch, you know, I met one of the managers at this, uh, uh, seminar and I'm like, wow, that's, that's the big dogs, you know? And I'm like, uh, you know, tell me about it. You know, I was so excited to meet him cause he ran the futures division. And I'm like, you know, what is it like to work with these guys, these top people in the industry?

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_03] And I was so excited to meet him. And he's like, tell me a little bit about you. And I, and I told him, and he's like, I want to meet you in my office tomorrow. And, uh, I, I went and met with him. I showed him my book of business. He's like, this is outstanding. He's like, what are you doing tomorrow? I want to fly you down to meet the regional manager. And he's in Miami. So they, you know, they spent like $1,500 on a ticket to fly me down there tomorrow. They didn't even delay, flew me down there to the next day.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_03] I walk into the interview and the regional manager's like, you know, I just interviewed 10 guys the other day and I threw them all out of the office. What makes you think I want to interview you, you know, or what makes you think I'm interested in you? I'm like, well, you know, you did spend $1,500 to fly me on a ticket, fly me down here the very next day, you know, but, you know, talk is cheap. This is what I've done. And I explained to him and, uh, he loved it. He loved it.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_03] And, uh, we, we connected where all of a sudden now they hire me and this regional manager became another mentor of mine, uh, cause he was just full of knowledge. And he was the one that, you know, my, I love Merrill's futures division. Right. And I learned a ton from the old, old timers, but my passion was to become a trader at the Chicago board of trade. I wanted to learn my craft. Right. And to really learn it, you got to go to ground zero of trading.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_03] Right. So with him, with the regional manager, he gave me the opportunity to go there, uh, to move to Chicago and become a floor trader at the Chicago board of trade. So that was my next step.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Talk us through the next step. You know, what, what was that environment? Like, what did you learn there? What did you learn in the pits that traders today don't appreciate that maybe you can apply to electronic trading these days?

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. It's, it's a good story because it was the late nineties, right? This is when you still, there's still open outcry. You wave your hands, right? When you want to buy, you have to put your hands up. You got to put the amount up and you got to, you know, wave your fingers around and you got to stand up all day yelling and screaming and hopefully you're getting the trades. Right. So I had the opportunity to be a floor trade market maker.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_03] I remember my first day when, you know, I go through the training program, I get licensed. Now I'm able to be on the floor. And the first day they, you know, the, the manager of the clearing firm I worked for, he's like, all right, get in there. And I'm like, you know, it was really crowded. I didn't know where to stand. It's the most intimidating place. I think in the entire world, right? There's just, you know, hundreds of angry people yelling and screaming. And it was my first day.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_03] So I walked in, got on the first step and I walked out about 15 minutes later. And I'm like, oh my God. So I went out, got a cup of coffee. I'm like, what did I do with my life? I just gave up, you know, the Merrill Lynch futures division. And I moved to Chicago, you know, pretty much my girlfriend dumped me because of this. And I gave up everything for this. And I'm like, oh my God, I had no choice. I came back later in the day when it slowed down, which was a lot better because in the morning it's crazy and it's chaos, but it slowed down a little.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_03] I got on a, you know, a stoop and then I put my hands up a little bit, but I still didn't know what to really do. And every day I go back into the clearing firm, you know, where they train you and they're like, all right, did you put any trades on today? I'm like, no. All right, put it on tomorrow. Then the next day, put a trade on today. No. They yell at you like you're a little kid. You got to put it on. What are you doing? You know, and all right.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_03] So the next day I better put a trade on because they're going to yell at me. I didn't put a trade on. But by Friday, you know, I'll be five days in there. I finally put one trade on. Right. And I still have that card. I made $50. It was the best trade ever. And they even yelled at me for making $50 because I should have lost. Right.

[00:20:40] I should have lost.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01] So it wasn't love at first sight, but perhaps second, third, fourth, maybe fifth sight. Yeah.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah. It was a really hard environment. You know, if you didn't like being picked on in school, right? If you have problems with that, you know, go into the pit. They're going to, you know, a new guy in the pit. Oh, my God. They're vicious. They're going to pick on you. They're going to make fun of you. You know, they're going to mess with you. Yeah. It's all part of it. It's, you know, it's the old boy network. So, yeah.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_03] So eventually, you know, next week I put on a trade or two. I got a little bit more comfortable. I watched every day what everybody did. And then next thing you know, I'm putting on more trades. Within three months, you know, I was profitable, you know, able to make money. Within eight months, you know, I've become really good at it. And, you know, here's the thing, Kevin, and this goes out to the audience.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_03] What is the biggest thing I learned in the trading pit and how did we make money? Right. And to answer that is you had to learn how to lose. Right. Right. And what the clearing firm did, you know, their training program was how to lose, how to play defense. Right. That's the only thing they taught you is defense. They didn't teach you anything about how to make money. They taught you everything on how not to lose money.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03] So what we had to do, it's called the power of the lean. Right. The power to lean is, you know, you're making a bid. So let's say it was the Dow index I was trading. And back then it was, you know, under 10,000. Can you believe it? So let's say the market is 9,550. Right. So you'd be like 50 bid. And if someone sells one to you. Right. Let's just say one lot. Right.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_03] Your job is to get out of it right away, especially in the beginning. So to break even. Right. Break even. And if the market ticks against you, you have to get out right away. So you're only allowed to lose five ticks. Right. Which is, you know, one. It's really it was it was really one tick in because it went five tick increments. Right. Or. If you lost five ticks, they never question it.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_03] If you broke even, they never question it. But if you did 10 ticks. Right. It's just, you know, it's pretty much two clicks down. They're like, OK, what happened here? You'd have to explain it at the end of the day. If it was over 10 ticks, forget about it. They're like, could you get out of, you know, five ticks? Yeah. So why didn't you? You know, 10 ticks. Why didn't you? 15 ticks. Undeceptible. And they would suspend you.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_03] They would suspend you for losing more than five ticks if you didn't have an explanation. Right. If you didn't have a good explanation, suspend you. They'd scream at you like you're a six year old. Get out of the office. You know, and I'm like, I'm an adult. And these people are yelling at me like I'm a six year old. Right. This is ridiculous. I don't have to take this. But I did because I won the trade. And the next day I was. Can I curse, Kevin? Oh, let's go for it. Let's get shitless. Right.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_03] If I lost more than 10 ticks. Guess what? I didn't lose more than 10 ticks. You know, and I didn't have a profitable day. You know, I'll take break even minus five, 10. But I wasn't allowed to lose more than 10 ticks. So what that put in my mindset is I'd only get on trades that I knew I can get out of. Right. It's called the power to lean. So if I'm at 50 bid, if I get in at 50, I'm all for an F55 right away. Right. And maybe I get hit. I make five ticks.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_03] Or if the market seems like it's going to turn, boom, I break even. It's the power to lean. I know I can get out. If I get in at 50 and someone hits me, I know I can get out at 50. If it goes up, great. Lucky me. If it goes down, I better be out. So they taught you defense. Defense, defense, defense. Okay. Fast forward to eight months. Right. I had a great month. Right. A great month is I made $28,500. Right. That's for me. That's a good month as a market maker. Right.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_03] 28,000 back in the late 90s. You know, it's like, you know, 60,000 now. Right. So I went to know I'm like, oh, yeah, the clearance. My managers are going to be, you know, happy today. Right. They're going to now I can ask them, how do you make money? Teach me how to make money. Right. They're like, OK, come sit down. I'm like, OK. So they went over my trades for the month. Right. I only had two small losing days. Right. The rest of the day is all winners.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_03] 20,000. So they went over to losing days. They're like, all right, what happened here? Five. That's good. Ten. OK. Fifteen. What happened? I'm like, you know, I'm like I couldn't explain it. I'm like, I want to learn how to make money. So he's like, Tim, he circles the 28,500 I made. He's like, look at this. What is this? I'm like, it's 20,500. Did you make money? He said, yes. OK.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_03] That's how you make money is by not losing it. Right. And that was the moment I was like.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_01] Oh. That was the moment I was like, I think it was a common theme. And in fact, the largest trading series ever written. I'm sure you're aware. Jack Schwager. That was the market wizards. The common theme there was risk management. And so often, you know, you hear the younger traders that get involved in. They're so focused on making money that they lose sight of the risk and playing good defense, like you were saying. So how do you balance that offense and defense together?

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01] Because, of course, like you're saying, defense almost creates the offense, right? Ever watch a stock rip and think, I could have nailed that if I had real capital. The truth is many capable traders never reach their potential. Not due to lack of skill, but lack of scale. Trade the Pool was built to solve exactly that. A firm designed for serious individuals who want access to the U.S. equity markets with meaningful buying power, up to $200,000 without committing their own capital.

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[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_03] And that's all they taught you. And they made sure. They never taught you how to make money. They taught you how not to lose. Right. And you had the fear of losing where it wasn't acceptable. And if you did, you had an answer to it. Right. And so that the making money in the commodities came from that. Right. And there was no. There was no method on or on the offensive side of making money on it.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_03] It's just did you have the lean? Did you have the odds? Someone in your favorite where you can get out at breakeven or take a little loss. That's it. Now, the next step is, you know, the commodity pitch. You're standing up all day. Right. And it's a rough environment. Right. I remember one day, you know, I was young. You know, I went out, had a good time at night. You know, I thought I was becoming a successful trader. I get in the pit late. Right.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_03] And I walk in and this guy, six, five over 300 pounds. He's standing in my spot. Right. And in the pits, that spot is what you earn. Right. You have to get up there eventually. And that's your territory. So this guy was in my territory. So I go up to him like, I'm like, hey, this is my spot. You know, out. He's like, what are you going to do about it? First come, first serve.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_03] And I'm like, oh, man, you know, and, you know, I hate to say it. I probably had a little hangover. Went out, you know, raised the night before. I'm just shaking my head. And everybody in the pit is watching me because they thrive on weakness. They're killers in there. So I went across the pit. I got in a three-point stance, like a football stance.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_03] And I just went running full speed and charged into my spot and elbowed him out of there. Right. And I put my hands up. Very good. You know, started trading. Right. He's like, oh, you want to play that way? He tried to shove me out. But, you know, I was a fullback. I was a big kid. Right. And so he's standing in front of me. And he's tall. He's 6'5". And nobody could see me. And I'm like, oh, my God, this guy's going to ruin me. So, you know, I'd be like 30-bit and my elbow would accidentally hit him in the back of

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03] the head. Sometimes my pen would stab his neck by accident, you know. And that's the mentality, right? To put on a crate. You got to fight for your life when you're down there. Wow. And you're hiding behind. Finalist. Yeah. And the crazy thing is, if, you know, in the pit, if you get in a pushing match, right, you may get away with it or you'll get fined.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_03] $5,000 and you'll be able to trade the next day, right? And you'll be like, don't do it again. But if you throw fist, which I've seen down there, you'll get suspended, you know, depending on how bad it is. And you'll get a big fine. Right. So, you know, a lot of shoulder, you know, pushing matches happened in the pit because everybody knew what would happen if you threw fist. But I did see a couple of fist fights when I was down there. Right.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_01] Did you get fined at all for stabbing somebody in the neck with a pen?

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_03] I got away with a pen.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_01] So do you recall, I mean, it sounds like you missed the pit days, by the way. I mean, do you recall the style you were trading for the month where you accumulated the $28,000? Because again, you said no one taught you necessarily how to trade. They just taught you how not to lose money. Right. Did you have a mentor or what styles did you trade them?

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03] I try to get mentors there. It's a tough crowd. But I will tell you this one story is, you know, there's a place called Series Cafe. It's underneath the board of trade in the basement. And all the traders get their breakfast there in the mornings, right? Right. And it was going to be a busy day. A lot of reports coming out. All right. I had all my numbers on my little sheet in front of me that I, you know, got the next

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_03] day to pivot points and, you know, what time the reports are, what can they expect? And then I see one of the biggest bond traders. Right. I mean, this bond trader did 100 million a year. You know, it's like hitting a Powerball jackpot year after year after year. That's how much this guy would make. Right. Everybody knew this guy. And he's sitting there watching Sports Channel. And it's just, it was bugging me.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03] I'm like, how is this guy watching the Sports Channel on the biggest trading day out there? So I was so upset. I'm like, how are you, you know, I went to him. How are you doing that? What are you watching that for? He's like, sit down. He's like, first off, you know, CNBC is a 50 minute info commercial with 10 minutes of biased news. He's like, I don't want that effect in my mind. So for me to be calm and cool is I watch Sports Channel. Right.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_03] And then when I get in the pit, you know, nobody knows the future or what's going to happen in the future. He's like, the past doesn't matter. He's like, I trade with my gut. He developed, it's called a trader's gut. And it's hard to explain to people, but that's how this guy made money is because he's not looking at the past. He has a clear mind, no biased information. He has zero opinion on where the market's going, up or down. He is reacting. And by reacting, he's making money.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01] Incredible. Yeah, the gut, I've always told traders too, is that combined experience over time. It's almost becomes like intuition in a way, right? Right. Yeah, six cents perhaps. Okay, so after Chicago Board of Trade, you helped grow a company, you know, into millions and millions of dollars. Tell us that story.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah, after Board of Trade, I became a prop trader, right? I worked for a company called Schoenfeld. I became successful there. And then unfortunately, 9-11 happened and the industry went crunch. They cut all the traders, you know, lines. It was hard to make money. So I had to go on and find something else. And I'm like, you know what? I'm young. I'm single. I'm going to move back to New York City. And I moved to New York City.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_03] And, you know, it's called being in between opportunities. I was jobless. And I went for it again. So I went on interviews after interviews. And I did my research. And there was an industry back in 2000 that was a kind of like a recession-proof industry. It was the Forex industry, right? 24-hour currency trading.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_03] And there was a couple of firms that were very successful when the industry kind of sunk, right? And this was in 2002, 2004, right? And I'm like, this is what I want to get into. So I had an opportunity at this company. And I did well. And I worked with a group. It was like a startup.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_03] They didn't pay my fair share, right? They did nothing all day. I did all the work. Eventually, I took over the division because the head guy saw that I was doing everything. And, you know, from that, I had an opportunity somewhere else. It was a startup. I took them from zero, brought them up to hero. And, of course, I didn't get my fair share there either. I thought I was treated unfairly. And what happened is I got so angry.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_03] You became a fighter. Yeah. You know, I took action because I got so angry. I'm like, you know what? I'll do this myself. I pretty much figured out how to do it myself in one night. And that's when I started TradeView, really in 2006, 2007. I started TradeView Markets. And the rest is, you know.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01] 20 years running. I mean, so do you need to offer them a thank you? Because they really turned you into a hungry dog, right? I mean, perhaps without that, would TradeView Markets even be here, though? Do you think?

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_03] You know, it was always in the back of my head. I wanted to do something on my own. But, you know, when people take action, it's not always planned out. It's because you have to. Absolutely. You know, I'm down 14 points. And here I am. You know, I want to win, right? So in life, I wanted to win. And I'm like, you know, and I was in my 30s. If I'm going to work for the next 10 years, I might as well do it for myself, right?

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_03] And I figured out I knew how to do the entire business. I knew how to get clients. You know, I call it. I'm not a salesman. I'm a relationship developer, right? I'm good at making relationships, good at meeting people, good at getting people's trust, right? I know my product. I know my stuff. I know about trading. It's in my blood. I've met the best traders in the world. I learned from them. You know, I've traded more money, you know, just with my hands, you know,

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_03] than people, you know, couldn't even imagine, you know.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01] I want to talk about one of your first trades, though, Tim. One of your first trades really stood out to me. That's the infamous L.A. gear story. So tell the audience about that.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I had this business class in high school. And it was one of my favorite teachers. He was a business teacher. His name was Harvey Brown. This guy had such a personality, right? And he talked about stocks and invested in stocks. And, you know, he had a couple of classes about it. And there was a new shoe that came out, L.A. gear. I'm like, hey, that looks cool. That looks hip, right?

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_03] And I'm like, I went to the teacher. I'm like, what do you think about this shoe, right? And he was like, hey, all right, let's look it up. It was on the pink sheets at the time, traded at $8, L.A. gear. So I convinced my parents. I had $5,000. Let me buy the stock, right? Oh, you know, my parents are both teachers and very straight laced, you know, like didn't like risk. I'm like, just let me do it. $5,000 is everything I had, though. But I put it in L.A. gear.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_03] So they let me do it. And eventually, you know, it went from $8 to $9. I'm like, whew. And it went to $12, $14. And my parents made me sell them because I could use the money for books or something. I don't know, you know. Oh, it could go down. You could lose all your money. I'm like, I want to hold on to it forever, you know. I want to make money. Tim, it doesn't work that way. You know, they wouldn't let me rebuy it.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_03] And I had to beg my parents, let me do it. And not that I knew the future. I had no idea. It's just, I was a kid, and by chance, this thing went to $60. Split four ways. 60 again. Split four. 60, you know. For that $5,000 investment, it would have netted me over a million before I went to college. And who knows if I would have sold it before then or whatever. But all I know is, when I went to college and I knew you needed money, I'm like, I would have been a millionaire, mom, dad.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_03] You know, if it wasn't for you guys. So, you know, can you lend me some money so I can have some fun in college? You know, so I could take this girl out on a date, you know. So I blamed it on my parents. And then I look back, if I was a millionaire in college, right, it would have been the worst thing ever for me. Because I would have spent the money on, you know, I'd probably buy an off-campus house and throw big parties. And, you know, who knows if I'd even graduate. I'd be thinking I'd make that money every single day.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_03] Right.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01] And do you think hitting like a home run trade that young? I mean, that was like one of your first trades, right? Yeah. But you may not have had that hunger that you're talking about, though. Like, let's say you had made that million. Maybe trade view is not here today. But, you know, that kind of that opportunity that you saw in the hunger thereafter kind of led you where you are right now.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_01] So do you think for a lot of traders, like their introduction into trading, hitting a first big trade can oftentimes come to their demise?

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. It could destroy you. It would have destroyed me. No doubt about it. It gave me the passion to learn every possible thing about trading and read every single book about trading that was out there. You know, my thing when I was young, you know, the hungry dog running faster. And even in college, I would go to Barnes & Noble. This is when you would actually walk into a store and buy books.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_03] You know, I would buy at least four books. Right. You know, not some Harry Potter or, you know, they didn't have that back then. But a novel. Books about how to. Right. How to trade. Right. How to be successful. How to negotiate. It was always books on how to do something. Business books. Right. I would read a minimum four books a month. Right. Every month.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_03] I would read and read and read underlined. Yellow marker. Yellow marker. I would take notes and get all this knowledge. And I learned a little bit about everything. Right. So, yeah. So and, you know, now that I'm 55, I'm not doing it as much because now I have reading glasses and, you know, reading books hurts my eyes, you know. But there's podcasts. There's the Internet. There's other stuff, other places to collect data. So I'm a big data guy.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_03] So, yeah, that that was my thing. That was the hunger and learning. And the hard work requires to learn.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_01] I want to transition now to the trade view. Marcus, now you've been running as CEO here for 20 odd years. And you've had a front row seat at thousands of traders across the world. And I heard in one of your interviews, you've been getting hundreds of clients a day. So, I mean, you've had that front row seat. You've been able to see how, where, where traders perform well, how the attrition rates and these kind of things. You offer different products as well.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01] Forex, CFD stocks, futures, commodities. You know, what do you think, because you have 20 years of data, being data driven. You know, what are some qualities that you see in traders where they may last survive for years? They're still with you, perhaps, Tom. Like maybe you still have traders from 20 years ago. So, clearly, you're going to see something in them. What do you see in those traders that last the longest versus those who only survive a year or two? Right. Okay. Here it is.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_03] Do it as a part-time job. Do it as a hobby. Right? Because traders, guess what? They take on risk. And you don't always make money. You don't make money every day. You don't make money every week, every month, and every year. So, imagine being a professional trader, and that's all you do. You have that nice house. You have a wife and kids, right? And you have a bad year.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_03] A bad year is you didn't make money, but you lost money. Now, you've got to make that money back. Right? And now you have a house. You have a mortgage, and you probably have to sell it. You have a wife. She'll probably leave you because you're miserable. Right? It's not to be a trader. That's not the life you want. Right? So, what I tell people, do it as a hobby. And for me, you know, if you're such a good trader, why do you have a brokerage? Well, yeah.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_03] Because remember in the 1800s when, you know, everybody on the East Coast of the United States wanted to strike it rich? They went out West to go dig for gold because they heard somebody got rich doing it. It's kind of like trading. You hear people get rich trading. Right? So, you move out West. You go dig for gold. You read every book on how to dig for gold. Right? Then there's the guy that owns the general store. Right? It's selling the picks and the shovels. Right? And the maps. They have X on the spot.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_03] These people go out. They dig for gold. And then they come back to the store after they fail. And they sell it for 5 cents on the dollar. 10 cents on the dollar. Right? He puts all the equipment back. And then he goes to their plot. And he sees what they did wrong. And then he strikes it rich. Right? Because he has a pulse on the market. So, that's what I do. My passion is with trading. That's what I want to do. Right?

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_03] But you have to have a pulse on the market. So, you know, for example, you know, trade view. Preview markets. We, I give the rates. I'm privy to. Right? Like, back then I was a market maker. You needed small rates. Right? In order to succeed and trade a lot. Same thing with trading. Right? You want to give your clients the best spreads. The best ability to, you know, you want low commissions. Low cost. You want traders to be able to succeed at your place.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_03] So, that's what we give them. Now, you know, over the years, over the 20 years, you know, we bring in about 300 new clients from around the world a day. Right? Right? Hopefully, five years from now, it's going to be even more. But I'll take it. But it gives me a pulse on the market. Meaning, you know, I'm sitting here right now and I have a screen open. And I just saw the S&P bounce back. And the first thing I look at is crude oil coming down. Right?

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_03] So, you can tell it's in my blood. So, I'll be in a meeting. Right? Like a Zoom conference. And next thing you know, I'm like, give me a sec. And I go to my computer and start banging on positions. Just by habit. And then I get back into the meeting. And I'll look back. Hopefully, it goes in my direction. If not, you know, I'll play defense and get out. That comes from the gut. Right? And having a pulse on the market.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_03] Now, the most important thing is, you know, the defense and the ability to walk away. Right? Not to trade. That could be your best trade. Is not trading. To walk away. Maybe it's for a day. Maybe it's for a week. Maybe you just sit back and watch. But that one day, your gut's going to be like, this is the trade. You put it on.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_01] You may not be able to answer this. This is a question I'm very curious about. You offer so many different markets with, I know you just recently introduced crypto as well and the CFD stocks futures. What market has the highest turnover? Which market has the highest success amongst your traders that you've seen?

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_03] Yes. Great question. And here's the answer. Whatever market is moving is where people gravitate to. Right? Right? So, on exchange equities, stocks, right? Is that highs? You get a lot of volume there because there's a lot of opportunities. Right? It's in the news. It's things are moving. You know, a stock could be up 100 bucks. There's opportunity there. So, people are going to move there. Cryptocurrencies, right? It's the hot thing.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_03] And, you know, I'm kicking myself too because, you know, I had opportunities to get in when it was $300 or $3,000. You know, I messed around with cryptocurrencies. I never got the full benefit because, you know, the thing is, I run a brokerage. And we have audited financials, right? We have to know where we're at every single day. You know, Bitcoin, where's the audited financials, right?

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_03] You know, you can tell me technology, this and that, you know, it's in, I don't know, man. I just, I never trusted it. Right? Just because of that. Because here I am, I have to get audited financials. Everything has to be clear and straight. And Bitcoin, nobody really knows. So, I always had an issue with that. You know, how do you really know? You know, I know some tech experts go like, oh, this is how, this is how. But I really just never know. So, anyway, it delayed me in getting in there.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_03] And then the other thing, when you run a brokerage, you worry about getting hacked in. Right? You have all these Russians out there that are code geniuses and they find a way to hack in and potentially steal your money. You know, I came up with a problem like eight, nine years ago. Now, one of our, I would say it wasn't crypto, one of our payment processing got hacked into.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_03] Right? Where they were able to take $3 million. Now, luckily, we caught it early and eventually we got it back. But, you know, man, I can tell you, you know, it wasn't fun. So, your heart was racing a little bit. Yeah. And then, you know, that's where you find a way to win. You know, we found a way to win and beat it and get the money back.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_03] And it wasn't easy. So, you know, you're going to come into those situations of hardship. But eventually we did. We got into crypto because I already built all the technology. You know, I'm a brokerage, but we're also a technology company. So, we built our own exchange. We have our own crypto exchange. Right? I also know how we're going to, you know, how they hack, they get you, they hack in and, you know, and how to do cybersecurity.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_03] You know, cybersecurity, we spend a boatload of money on that. You know, 10, 15 years ago, you didn't need that. You know, you didn't have that expense as a brokerage. Now, that's a big expense for a brokerage is cybersecurity. And we spend a boatload of people, boatload of money, and we have to have all the people that are experts on it, on staff, and paying them a salary.

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, there's a lot of overhead costs. I don't think a lot of us are privy to when running that business. I mean, looking back on the journey, reflecting on it, what are some of the hardships that you've had to endure outside of that? Ooh.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_03] Hardships. You know, the hardship is, you know, I'm 55, and it's a 24-hour market. Yeah. Right? I don't get to sleep during a week. And the market closes, you know, 5 p.m. on Friday Eastern Time and reopens Sunday, 5 p.m., right? So, you know, 5 p.m. Friday, I'm like, thank God.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_03] You know, maybe even before 5 p.m., it's slowing down, and, you know, I have other people that watch over everything. But, you know, my heart doesn't stop racing until 5 p.m. Friday. And then it starts racing an hour before the market's on Sunday. So, you know, I can't even really enjoy my weekend. You know, there's constant work and work. The markets are only closed Christmas Day and New Year's Day. And this past year, I think it fell on a Saturday. So I didn't really get the benefit of that. You know what I mean?

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_03] So I get two days off a year. You know, when you run a brokerage, it's 24 hours. We have offices across the sea. You know, I have everybody watching. We have big staff, right? Got risk management, got this. But, you know, nobody cares about your money more than you do. And you have to have all eyes on it. And you have to manage people. You have to, you know, make sure everybody's working, doing their part. So it's never-ending battle to be a successful company.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, speaking of managing people, you know, you've said you have 200 employees working for you. Now, how do you identify, you know, some of these top performers out there? And what qualities do they have that distinguish them from the rest? This is Kevin. We hope you're enjoying this episode so far. If you are, take a second to leave a comment. We read them all and truly care about what you think.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_01] And if you haven't yet subscribed to our email list, visit chatwithtraders.com and click subscribe so we can keep you posted on information that matters. Now, back to the chat with our guest.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, that's the mystery. I tend to look for people that are like me, right? Hungry, good communicators, fearless, right? Rejection-proof. They're able to develop relationships on a deeper level, right? And they can handle rejection, meaning, you know, they'll hear 100 no's during the day and all you need is one yes. And you're successful as a broker.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_03] So what we do here is, you know, we bring guys that are already successful and proven it or that we feel are going to go from good to great. And we can pull the greatness out of them, just like Coach Stoutland did with his players.

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_01] Right.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_03] He brought the greatness out of people. And that's what we try to do at TradeView Markets, you know. You have significant influence. An environment they can thrive in, right? So if they're a salesperson, they're able to make a king's ransom if they bring in a lot of business. And, you know, the great part about this business is you have technology, right? And here's the scenario. You know, and a lot of my friends own restaurants.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_03] And it's something I'll never do in my life is own a restaurant, right? Because how many times can you serve dinner, Kevin, at a restaurant?

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_01] Golden Corral probably a few times.

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_03] Once.

[00:54:38] Okay.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_03] Right. All right. So, you know, once a day, right? You can serve dinner. How many people can you sit? You know, maybe you get like, you know, two or three sittings. A hundred. A restaurant. You might have a hundred seats in your restaurant, right? That's it. You're capped off. So if your restaurant gains momentum, right? Maybe you can open up another one and it's going to cost you a ton of money and capital to do. Right? And that's why the restaurant business fails. 95% of them go out of business.

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_03] With a brokerage, right? We have technology. Where as let's compare it to the restaurant, right? I can serve dinner four times a day because it's 24 hours, right? I have more than a hundred seats, right? I have unlimited amount of seats. So we can open up unlimited amount of accounts. You know, 300 a day. Bang, bang, bang. It goes on the platform.

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_01] 600 a day, 1,000 a day, 2,000. It's just scalable, right? Versus the restaurant model. It's scalable.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_03] So the only businesses I'll ever do are scalable businesses, right? And, you know, your costs go down and you get more clients. It doesn't go up. It goes, well, it goes up a little, obviously. But, you know, it doesn't go up like a restaurant where you need to know more seats. You need more capital. You need more of this, right? You can scale. And scalable businesses are going to be the successful ones. So I feel very strongly on that. Yeah.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. I'm not sure, you know, what the overhead costs were back then. But I've heard, you know, 20 years fast forward from trade view. I mean, you just need a lot of upfront capital these days, right? For compliance, regulatory. And it's steep. It's steep.

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_03] You know, 20 years ago, it wasn't cheap. But, you know, I had the ability to get in. Every dime I saved up, I put into trade view. I was able to do it. Would I be able to do it again? In today's conditions, no way possible. I would need outside investors. I need a ton of capital. I need this. I need that. You know, luckily, you know, we've become a successful company. And, you know, now we have the money, right?

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_03] And we're able to do these things on a high level, high quality level. You know, so back then, you know, the company was built on momentum. And, you know, to the people out there, remember this. They don't teach you this in college, momentum, right? What is momentum, right? It's kind of like when you're playing a football game, you know, you get the first down, right? Then another first down. And then you're going down the field. Then you get a touchdown, right?

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_03] And now you feel good that you could win the game. So you go back on the field. You score another touchdown. Same thing in business, right? You need momentum. You got to thrive on it, right? And once you have it, there's people who will sit back and be comfortable. Not me, not us, right? When we have momentum, we push it. We push it to the limit. And it's the same thing in the business world. When you have momentum, you push it.

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_01] So during your momentum with TradeView, something drastic happened and everything stopped for Tim. You went into a coma. Can you tell us about this?

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah. And I'm happy to tell it because I'm alive to tell it, right? So what was it? It was about three and a half years ago. Actually. Yeah. No, four years now. Wow. Time flies. Yeah. Yeah. Four years ago, I had a sore throat. Thought nothing of it. You know, sore throat. I'm a healthy guy. I usually sick for a day and then I'm good. And the sore throat got worse. And I'm like, oof. And then I got weak.

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_03] I was in bed. They're like, oh, you should go to a doctor. I'm like, ah, I'll be fine. And then eventually they had a doctor come to me. And he tried to give me antibiotics. And he's like, if you can't swallow in the morning, you got to go to the hospital. And I'm like, ah, I'll be fine. And then next morning I'm like, oh my God, I can't even drink, you know, get this pill down my throat. And it was five in the morning. I'm like, ah, I got to go wake up my wife. And she hates being woke up, right?

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_03] I went to sleep in another room because I knew I'd be up and sick and I didn't want to get her sick. And so she took me to the hospital and then, you know, they made me fill out paperwork. And I'm like, my blood pressure's going down. I feel like I'm dying in the waiting room. I'm like, please, I haven't taken a drink in two days. You know, you get an IV and put me in the hospital room. Put it in.

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_01] You're going to die filling out paperwork.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. And I just kept getting weaker and weaker when I was in the hospital. Finally, they had a specialist come look at me at 3 p.m. And it was, you know, I got there at 7 in the morning. 3 p.m. They had a specialist look at me and looks at my throat. He's like, we're going to have to take you to surgery. And I'm like, what are you talking about? No, no, no. Just give me antibiotics. I'll be fine. No, he's like, you don't understand. You're going to be dead in two hours. We got to take you to surgery.

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_03] I'm like, ooh, I guess surgery is a good option. You know, I'm joking around with it, but I'm starting to think, oh, shit. You know, something's like wrong here. So, yeah, they take me to surgery. And then the anesthesiologist was uncomfortable because my neck was just blown up. And she's like, we may have trouble intubating you. I want a surgeon here. So, you know, this is in Cayman Islands, right? Everything is 5, 10 minutes away.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_03] For some reason, the surgeon didn't get in until another hour, right? And I'm there. I'm like, hey, aren't we on like a time limit here? A click in time? You know, stopwatch here? He said I was going to die in two hours, you know, and it's almost two hours. And he's like, oh, we'll be okay. We'll be okay. And, yeah, they put me under. And even when they were putting me under, I'm like, yeah, this is not working, you know. But then eventually, you know, I fell asleep. And I woke up three and a half days later.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_03] For something that should have been a simple one-hour surgery, I woke up three and a half days later in another hospital. And when I woke up, I was on a respirator. You know, they cut the hole in the neck. I had all these wires on me. And they're like, all right. You know, they woke up from it, from the coma. And I'm looking around. All the doctors look different, you know.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_03] And they all ran in, you know, like I'm talking about like 10, 20 of them when I woke up. And then luckily, my wife was there. And they're like, all right, calm down. Things didn't go as planned. All right. You had to get, you know, a tracheotomy. And you're on a respirator. And I couldn't talk. So I'm like, pen, paper, pen, paper. And they're looking at me like, ooh, just, you know. I'm like, why is everybody looking at me funny? And I'm like, what the heck happened?

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_03] And like, ooh, they were excited that I was riding. Because what happened is I crossed over. And the oxygen levels went from like, you know, 99 to under 30. Right? So I wasn't getting oxygen for seven minutes or whatever they said. And I crossed over twice. So they were looking at me like, is this guy brain dead? Everything all right? No, it was fine. And, you know, I was writing on the piece of paper. I was joking.

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_03] I was like, what do I have, cancer? Question mark. Tell me right now. I thought I had cancer or something. They're like, oh, no, no, no, no. That's the least of our problems, you know. And I still wasn't either clear. Because I had these levels that were like ridiculously high. It's supposed to be like 40. And it was at like, I don't know, like something like 700. You know, I don't even know. I can't even think about it. But they start, those levels started coming down. It was a good sign. But they told me there's a 5% chance of living once I went under.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_03] Once the infection spreads to the chest, 5% chance of living. So, yeah, I made it. And it was in ICU five minutes, five days. But, yeah, I got out of there. And, you know, they put me in a private room. They closed up my neck. I started recovering. And then, you know, I had a collapsed lung. I woke up. I was yellow because my body gave out, you know, and stopped working.

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, I was a mess when I woke up. One of the first things you had written down, too, I heard you say was, I mean, because you couldn't speak. You had the respirator in. You wrote down to the doctors, am I going to live? You didn't even know if you were going to live. No, no, no.

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_03] No. But, you know, I had to find a solution, right? So these are the questions you ask. Am I going to live? Okay. What's the solution? What do I do? How can I help? You know, and I had trouble breathing. So I'm like, all right, well, what I could do is chill out, just try to control my breathing. So at least I can breathe.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_03] But, you know, the doctors happen to be Indian, right? And I love them. I love them. And when they say, you know, am I going to live? They shake their head like this, right?

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_01] They shake their head no. They shake their head no.

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_03] Like, no? He's shaking his head no, you know, in the background. And, oh, no, no, they shake their head like that whenever they answer a question, right? It's just their habit, right? It's not yes or no. It's just, you know, they shake their head when they're answering a question. And I learned that trait. I was like, whoo, okay, yeah. Yeah, so I had a long recovery. And, you know, I was looking at the clock on the wall.

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_03] And, you know, they had me on all these heavy drugs or whatever. And I'm like, all right, let me try to make it for another 30 minutes. I made it 30 minutes. I'm like, good. I'll make it for another 30 minutes. Then it became an hour. Then it became, I'll make it another three hours. So, yeah, I was trying to make it, you know, minute by minute. And then after the third day, I'm like, ooh, this is good. And then they started shaking their heads. And I'm like, oh, is that good or bad? They're like, yeah, your levels are coming down. It's a good sign because it's early.

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_03] So that gave me hope that, you know, I can fight through this. And, you know, I fought like hell to stay alive. You know, the battle wasn't over when they woke me up. It just really started.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_01] You've been a fighter your entire life, Tim. I mean, here's another example of you fighting to live. Now, how has your relationship with success changed over the years? I wonder if you had a different definition prior to that event versus after. What is success to Tim?

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_02] Hmm.

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I, you know, after the event, I guess, did I change things? You know, I don't know. I still have the same mindset. You know, every day is a fight. I'm going to fight. I probably worked harder. You know, nothing changed. I'm working harder. You know, I appreciate things a lot more.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_03] You know, my wife, my family, I'm making sure that, you know, I spend a heck of a lot of time with them. Making sure, you know, I'm preparing them for life, you know, in case something bad does happen. And I always have in my mind where, you know, you could always die. You know, make sure, you know, your family's set. Yeah.

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_01] You know, something also near and dear to your heart is supporting women's rugby. Tell us a little bit about that.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. We, you know, we want to give back, right? I was a rugby player. A lot of people that work at Tradeview are rugby players. And, you know, we call it the Tradeview curse, right? It's not a curse. It's a blessing. But we make fun of it because we all have girls, right? All our first kids, you know, pretty much everybody that works at Tradeview is a girl. And, you know, we're all rugby players.

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_03] You know, the boys play the rugby, blah, blah, blah. You know, so what we did is there was, you know, I live in the Cayman Islands. And the rugby club wanted to, the rugby club, which I'm involved with, right? They're like, hey, we want to upstart the women's rugby program again. We need sponsorship and some help. And, you know, I'm like, yeah, I like this idea. I like division. I'm like, yeah, not only do I want to sponsor it, I want to help it, right?

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_03] I don't like to give money away and just wave the flag. Oh, look at me. I'm so good. No, I want to help. I want to inspire. I want to, you know, see what I can do. You know, so we recruited some coaches from England, some women coaches. And I put them up in housing to get them down there. We paid them money. And it went from, you know, a group of girls to over 200 girls.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_03] And, you know, I'd say four years later, the program is thriving, thriving. It's big and it's popular. And the girls love it. It's changed lives without a doubt. So, yeah, we're happy that we're involved with it. And, you know, as a business owner, if, you know, do we get anything back from it? I don't know. It's a mystery. It's not like we're opening accounts hand over fist down there.

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_03] But, you know, if we could use marketing money to help support local amateur teams, I'd rather do that than, you know, pay professionals and get my name on their shirts. Because if you can use your marketing money to help amateur sports, maybe get something out of it, it's more rewarding, right? So, that's what we hope. That's excellent.

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_01] That's excellent. You know, one of your best trades.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_03] You know, one of your best trades, memorable one.

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_03] I think, you know, I think the world of that company, the technology, the advances and where that guy knows how to win, right? Elon Musk. He just knows how to win. He's out there and he wants to do everything. And he's nonstop. So, I can relate to him, right? I look at him like this guy is going to make it. Now, you know, he's so vibrant out there. So, a lot of people have opinions about him, right?

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_03] But on a business standpoint, I think Tesla's going to be an absolute winner. It's been a winner for me right now and I'm still in it. Profit target. You know what? I don't know, man. I don't want, you know, again, opinions kill, right? But you have to have an out for a trade. Yeah. I'm holding. I'm holding. You're holding. And it's the only thing I have an opinion on. Whereas other stocks, you know, at least I'll play defense first on other stocks.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_03] But I really have no defense on Tesla. It's all or nothing. And that's the worst thing you could possibly do in trading. Diamond hands. Telling you, listen, go out, blindly buy this thing. You know, I could be wrong, right? I'm a good trader. I could be wrong on this. But if I'm right, which I think I'm going to be, you know, rewards will come.

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_01] Now, I know you're a great defensive trader. You learned that early on. But think back, worst trade.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_03] What did you do? Probably being short gold. Last year. Yeah. Yeah. What were the thoughts behind it? You know, and I'm not a contra trader at all. But for some reason, I shorted it. And I should never have shorted it. What were the thoughts there? Why'd you short? Just thought there was an opportunity because the markets were doing something different. And oils were doing something different. And then, you know, gold looked a little toppy.

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_03] So I gave it a try. And it's just, you know, it's not like I lost a ton of money. It's just a trade I should never have been in. Right? It's just a horrible trade because I'm a trend trader. Right? I'm not a contra trader at all. Relative strength. There's a reason. Right? Nobody knew the reason why gold was going to go up like that. Nobody did. It just happened. Right? And you stay away. You don't short those things. And there I am breaking my own rules. So when I break my rules, guess what happens? Sometimes I make money, get rewarded.

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_03] But that's where you can get smoked. So don't break the rules.

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. We've covered so much. There's been so much value add here for the listeners. Now hearing, Tim, that you're a trend trader. For the technical guys listening, any advice you want to give to the trend traders listening out there?

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah. Important lesson from a great trader. And this is in the 90s. Right? You know, take a chart. Right? You print it out. Put it on the floor. Stand up on your chair. Squint your eyes. Right? What direction is it going? Up or down? Okay. It's going up. Okay. Why would you ever short this? Right?

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_03] So to be successful in trading, right? Right? It's relative strength, relative weakness. Not these bulge of band crap. You know, I don't trade with that. The strong gets stronger. And the weak get weaker. Right? Like, the advice is, you know, back in the 90s, we had the stock Yahoo. Right? It went from $10 to $20. $20 to $30, $40, $50. Everybody wanted to short it. Every analyst out there is like, oh, it's a bubble stock in this and that.

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_03] Went from $60 to $70 to $100 to $200. Right? Oh, you got to short it here. Went to $300. Right? I remember the day it went to $400. I was in the pit. Everybody's watching it. And everybody goes, Yahoo! When it hit $400. Right? That's probably the top before it burst. But everybody was trying to get the burst. Where no trader I knew, even the professional, even the ones that said they're great, they all got tempted to short it. And they should never have been short it.

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_03] They should never even try to go for a bubble burst in the market. You know, never trade that way. Trade the trend. The trend is your friend. Look for places to buy it. You know, even my brother-in-law. Right? He just, he likes action. Right? He thinks it goes up. You should be shorting it because it's overvalued or whatever. Never. Never. If the trend is up, you look for places to buy it. Right? Escalator up. It's slow. Elevator down. Right?

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_03] Sometimes you've got to buy on the elevator down where everybody wants to try to make the elevator down. And the elevator down, that doesn't always happen. Sometimes an escalator just keeps going up and up and up and up and up and up. So be, follow the trend. Don't short just because you think it's high or it's overvalued. Don't be a contra trader. Contra traders. And I see it every day. I see it every day. I see clients do it because they're all self-directed. Market goes up. They short it. Market goes down. They're buying it. Right?

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_03] But they're doing those for the wrong reason. Just because it went up, they look to short it. Just because it went down, they think it's valuable and they buy it. Right? If you're following the trend, if it goes down, you look for your points to buy if it's trending up. Right? And if you get sharp sell-offs, you got to look to buy because that is a healthy stock or healthy market is escalator up, elevator down.

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. You know, from having thousands and thousands of traders and their data, is that one of the common, you think, mistakes they make? Yep. Is they're trying to predict? You say you're reactionary. Tim's reactionary, but you see traders making mistakes trying to predict. All the time. All the time. Got it.

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_03] They think it's going higher and it can't go higher. Guess what? It can.

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, certainly can.

[01:15:41] [SPEAKER_03] It's tempting. I do it too. So I break my own rules and I regret it. So you should never break your rules. You know, like Tesla, I'm breaking my rules, but I have an opinion and I think it's going higher. So I can't preach because I break my own rules. But try not to break too many of your rules.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_01] That's great. Yeah. So what's a book you've gifted the most to somebody? A book that meant the most? You said you used to read for a week or month and you were.

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_03] Actually, it's funny because I have them right here. And when my friend's kids come over, I give it to them. Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People, right? Communication, I think, is essential for life. You know, you're not going to get anywhere if you can't communicate. So if you're some tech nerd that likes to stay behind a computer, you better be the best damn programmer in the world. And, you know, maybe people see your work. But if you're a good communicator, you're always going to be making money.

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_03] You're always going to be a good salesperson. You're always going to be able to get a job. I think communication is essential. Right. For trading, the story about Jesse Livermore, remnants of a stock operator. Right. Must read. And it still goes till today. Right. It's an old book. It's about relative strength in the market. It's about reading the tape. It is still valid today. It's the concept. And it's a concept about life. The strong get stronger and the weak get weaker. Right.

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_03] Read it. And those are the two great ones. Yeah. Excellent. And leadership trade. And there's, you know, hold on. Let me see here. Gee, I have magic. Here it is. The book. Magic of thinking. Magic of thinking. Right. But David Swartz. All right. Got to read this book. It gets you thinking bigger on a bigger level. Think rich and grow rich. Or think and grow rich. Right. Got to read this. Napoleon Hill. Awesome.

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_03] Got to read it. Right. And then Arnold Schwarzenegger. Right. I like to exercise. I want to learn from the best, man. In the 80s, I was reading this guy. I idolized this guy, you know, because I want to be a great football player. I want to know the cheat code on how to work out. Right. And so I did his workout. And it worked.

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_01] Well, make sure to put those in the show notes. Tim, this has been an incredible conversation. Really turning your setbacks into fuel over your entire life. That's a theme in your life. You know, we've covered from football to Merrill Lynch. You've always had that competitive spirit from the trading floors of Chicago to currently with TradeView. And there's just one question I'd like to wrap up the conversation with. And that's imagine somebody is listening today.

[01:18:32] [SPEAKER_01] They're trying to become a better trader. Or maybe they're trying to build a meaningful business or create a better life for themselves. If you could just leave them with one lesson you've learned through everything you've experienced, the wins, the setbacks, the risks you've taken in life, the second chance now that you've been given, what would that lesson be? Don't do it.

[01:18:56] [SPEAKER_03] Go out. Have a steady life. Go marry a nice girl. Have the white picket fence and the small house. The dog. Have an easy life. All right? Now, if they're like you too. Yeah. But if you're wired differently, like me, you have no choice. Right? You're in to win. You go out and you find a way to win. And you be relentless at doing it.

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_03] Not relentless in a bad way, but in a good way. You're a good person. But you're relentless with your drive. And you've got to figure out everything on your own. Don't ever leave it to somebody else to figure it out for you. You have to know a little bit about everything in order to run a company. Excellent.

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_01] Now, what's next for TradeView? And where can traders find Tim if they want to keep up with you?

[01:19:50] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. You know, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active. I'm a storyteller. So people tend to like it because, you know, I don't just talk business. I just I talk stories, interesting stories. You know, like I just took a trip to Yosemite and I made a business story on it. I was at Dollywood, Tennessee. Right. And someone, you know, someone took a picture of me on my iPhone working. Right. I was actually on my iPhone looking at the SpaceX IPO.

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_03] So and there was a picture of me on this thing where the kids, everybody's screaming, having smiling. And I'm on my phone. Right. So I'm always working. What was the question, Kevin? I found a story. So find me on LinkedIn. Right. So you'll find me on LinkedIn. Just look up Tim Fury. You can find me on social media everywhere. Tim Fury. I was just featured on Bloomberg called The American Dream.

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_03] And that's on YouTube now. It has over 2.5 million views, which is awesome. Well, 2.6, you know, but who's counting? Yeah. So I'm out there. Just look me up. Tim Fury. CEO. Tradeview Markets. And also now Yimit, which is a crypto exchange.

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_01] Excellent. You're an incredible storyteller, by the way. And so, Tim, how are you going to stay hungry moving forward?

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, you know, Kevin, I joke around. I say this to myself, and everybody says it to me, too. You know, Tim, you got to retire. Enough's enough. You know, it's a lot of hours. But, you know, I can't, man. I can't. Because when I was young, right, you know, 13, 14, to make money, I'd break leaves for $5 an hour. Right? You know, what a waste of time that is, right? When you're looking back at it.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_03] But I guess it's the lessons you got to learn, right? Whereas if I quit now, you know, I'm making, I'm at my prime. You know, I'm making the most money. Why would I retire? Right? It'd be selfish of me to retire. Because I have kids, I have family, I have generations, I have charities, I have, you know, girls rugby. I have people I need to support that count on me. So it'd be selfish of me to retire and to stay steady.

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_03] I'm going to use every ounce of brain cells I have left after my crossing over, you know, and try to do the best I can in this industry and try to build it to a monster. Also with the crypto exchange. And we'll see what happens in the next five to 10 years. So stay tuned.

[01:22:37] [SPEAKER_01] Stay tuned, traders. Yep. For those who made it to the end of this episode, comment below. Hungry dogs run faster so we know how hungry you truly are. We appreciate you, Tim, for coming on Chat with Traders. Until next time. Awesome. Thank you, Kevin. Take care. Cheers, buddy.

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_00] You've reached the end of this episode of Chat with Traders. But rest assured, there are more episodes loaded with real market insight and zero hype on the way soon. So to stay updated with each great new release, subscribe to the podcast and we'd love it if you'd leave a rating and review. We'll catch you next time on Chat with Traders.